Another one for fun...has anybody got any leads on who may have made this walnut sideboard? There are a couple of Brooks-like knobs on the brackets at the outside base of the mirror, but probably not enough to make it a Thomas Brooks. This piece came out of the Seth Warner mansion in Chicago...it has seen better days, but it is both functional and restorable (some day!). Quite the burly monster. The whole thing has a grape leaf motif...including "low-relief grape leaf" (say that fast!) designs in way of the little shelves at the sides of the mirror. Note the columns flanking the mirror as well.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thank you,
Jason
Renaissance Revival Sideboard -- can you ID?
Archive summary
Victorian Furniture thread on victorianforum.com · started November 21, 2007 by 1881victorian · 15 posts, 3 image attachments · discussion in 2007–2009.
Another one for fun...has anybody got any leads on who may have made this walnut sideboard? There are a couple of Brooks-like knobs on the brackets at the outside base of the mirror, but probably not enough to make it a Thomas Brooks. This piece came out of the Seth Warner…
I have never seen this piece or something comparable elsewhere to be able to ID it, myself. It's a great piece nonetheless.
You may take the hardware off and see if there is a signature behind them. "Shannon" is seen on a lot of Pabst hardware and "P&S" (or is it just "PS") is on much of the Pottier & Stymus items, so likewise you may find a clue.
I also have taken the back mirror panels off to see if there are markings there. I've attached an example of one of my mirror finds.
You may take the hardware off and see if there is a signature behind them. "Shannon" is seen on a lot of Pabst hardware and "P&S" (or is it just "PS") is on much of the Pottier & Stymus items, so likewise you may find a clue.
I also have taken the back mirror panels off to see if there are markings there. I've attached an example of one of my mirror finds.
After hauling this monster from Chicago, and then carrying it into the house, I doubt that I'll be in the mood to take the back mirror panels off any time soon. It sits on some hefty double-wheel casters though...not sure how common those are. My hunch is that it is probably a made-in-Chicago piece, but the book I borrowed on Chicago's furniture history didn't have any photos of something similar.
In any event, I have attached a view of some of the detail on the upper portion. Good fun. I'm curious if anybody knows of a super furniture restoration expert in the greater Wisconsin area. Perhaps I'll pester the 7 Gables folks in Baraboo.
Thank you,
Jason
In any event, I have attached a view of some of the detail on the upper portion. Good fun. I'm curious if anybody knows of a super furniture restoration expert in the greater Wisconsin area. Perhaps I'll pester the 7 Gables folks in Baraboo.
Thank you,
Jason
Is this the book you borrowed?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chicago-Furniture-Makers-1833-1983-Scarce-NEW-Book_W0QQitemZ130179579494QQihZ003QQcategoryZ63592QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chicago-Furniture-Makers-1833-1983-Scarce-NEW-Book_W0QQitemZ130179579494QQihZ003QQcategoryZ63592QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Yep...that's the one. Reads nicely, but it seemed kind of light in way of pictures of furniture. It is a bit more of a story and history...not quite so much of a furniture reference guide.
- Jason
- Jason
I see that Souhantq just got one of these listed in their new monthly additions for April 2009. The upper portions are 99% identical. The lower cabinet portion has some stylistic differences and a bit more detail on the corners. Very nice. I suspect that it would be worth my while to have mine restored.
http://www.southamptonantiques.com/apr/sb-1198.html
- Jason
http://www.southamptonantiques.com/apr/sb-1198.html
- Jason
"After hauling this monster from Chicago, and then carrying it into the house, I doubt that I'll be in the mood to take the back mirror panels off any time soon." LOL, DEAD FUNNY
John's suggestion about the brass hardware offering possible clues about the maker is a good one as it wasnt until the 19th century that america started foundries in any significant way. In the 17-18th centuries, virtually all cabinet hardware used in america was imported from Birmingham England. Indeed, the British Parliament enacted laws prohibiting the colonies from engaging in the foundry business. One reason for this i suspect was economic (protect the powerful guild system) and another was political (cannons were made of cast brass and who knows where that could lead!).
John's suggestion about the brass hardware offering possible clues about the maker is a good one as it wasnt until the 19th century that america started foundries in any significant way. In the 17-18th centuries, virtually all cabinet hardware used in america was imported from Birmingham England. Indeed, the British Parliament enacted laws prohibiting the colonies from engaging in the foundry business. One reason for this i suspect was economic (protect the powerful guild system) and another was political (cannons were made of cast brass and who knows where that could lead!).
Hey jason,
Great sideboard and definitely worthy of restoring! For what it's worth it looks like it could be Mitchell and Rammelsberg. Mind you, I am not foolishly attributing it to them but it looks like their work. I want you to look at the grape and leaf carvings on this labeled example:
http://www.prices4antiques.com/furniture/hall-stands/Hall-Stand-Renaissance-Revival-Mitchell-Rammelsberg-Walnut-Strapwork-Crest-Arched-Mirror-Reticulated-Stiles-Cabriole-Legs-Lab-D9956332.htm
Also, when it was made or anytime after it was made it is certainly a possibility that it was shipped by rail from Cincinnati to Chicago!
Just some thoughts on it but I love detective work!
Zeke
Great sideboard and definitely worthy of restoring! For what it's worth it looks like it could be Mitchell and Rammelsberg. Mind you, I am not foolishly attributing it to them but it looks like their work. I want you to look at the grape and leaf carvings on this labeled example:
http://www.prices4antiques.com/furniture/hall-stands/Hall-Stand-Renaissance-Revival-Mitchell-Rammelsberg-Walnut-Strapwork-Crest-Arched-Mirror-Reticulated-Stiles-Cabriole-Legs-Lab-D9956332.htm
Also, when it was made or anytime after it was made it is certainly a possibility that it was shipped by rail from Cincinnati to Chicago!
Just some thoughts on it but I love detective work!
Zeke
It seems that your link is working to keep me in suspense...
"Temporary Error
The Prices4Antiques Database is temporarily unavailable."
Regardless, I think that it would be pretty cool if this piece were made by M&R. I'll try the link again a bit later...thank you for the heads-up!
- Jason
"Temporary Error
The Prices4Antiques Database is temporarily unavailable."
Regardless, I think that it would be pretty cool if this piece were made by M&R. I'll try the link again a bit later...thank you for the heads-up!
- Jason
Darn Jason!
the link works for me???
try it again?
http://www.prices4antiques.com/furniture/hall-stands/Hall-Stand-Renaissance-Revival-Mitchell-Rammelsberg-Walnut-Strapwork-Crest-Arched-Mirror-Reticulated-Stiles-Cabriole-Legs-Lab-D9956332.htm
the link works for me???
try it again?
http://www.prices4antiques.com/furniture/hall-stands/Hall-Stand-Renaissance-Revival-Mitchell-Rammelsberg-Walnut-Strapwork-Crest-Arched-Mirror-Reticulated-Stiles-Cabriole-Legs-Lab-D9956332.htm
Let me try this?
Zeke:
Awesome...and, indeed, I got the link to work for me last night just before I went to bed. Yes, the grape leaf carvings are very similar. I'm not sure if they are as good as a M&R stamp, but they are very similar.
I'm a bit reluctant to do the legwork to find out how much it would cost to have such a thing properly restored. ...not sure who in WI might be reputable. I'll probably try the fellow at www.circavictoriana.com and see what he says.
Thank you for the link!
- Jason
Awesome...and, indeed, I got the link to work for me last night just before I went to bed. Yes, the grape leaf carvings are very similar. I'm not sure if they are as good as a M&R stamp, but they are very similar.
I'm a bit reluctant to do the legwork to find out how much it would cost to have such a thing properly restored. ...not sure who in WI might be reputable. I'll probably try the fellow at www.circavictoriana.com and see what he says.
Thank you for the link!
- Jason
To find a competent restorer ask your local antique dealers or museums who they use (and their opinions of them). Some probably do their own work, but many will hire out the work. You can also check the yellow pages (usually listed under "Furniture Refinishing"), or do a search online for your area.
If you're not familiar w/ them - ask for references. Any restorer (or any trade for that matter whether a roofer, plumber, electrician, cabinetmaker, etc.) should be able to provide you with several (ask for at least 3) references to call and ask about their experience - their satisfaction?, quality of work?, done on time?, on budget? etc., you could even ask to see their work in person if it's near you. If you do your homework and find a competent craftsman - you're almost guaranteed a successful job. If you just pick an unknown at random w/o doing any homework - it's a crapshoot. There are both competent and incompetent people in every single profession - bar none. I prefer to deal with the competent ones. woodwright
If you're not familiar w/ them - ask for references. Any restorer (or any trade for that matter whether a roofer, plumber, electrician, cabinetmaker, etc.) should be able to provide you with several (ask for at least 3) references to call and ask about their experience - their satisfaction?, quality of work?, done on time?, on budget? etc., you could even ask to see their work in person if it's near you. If you do your homework and find a competent craftsman - you're almost guaranteed a successful job. If you just pick an unknown at random w/o doing any homework - it's a crapshoot. There are both competent and incompetent people in every single profession - bar none. I prefer to deal with the competent ones. woodwright
Hey Jason,
To my eyes the carving on the grapes and leaves looks equally good but it's hard to tell from the pics. The applied overlapping circles on the crest of the sideboard also resemble some of the applied ornament under the coat hooks on the hall stand. Actually Jason, your sideboard looks really nice in the pic, why not consider just leaving it as is?
To my eyes the carving on the grapes and leaves looks equally good but it's hard to tell from the pics. The applied overlapping circles on the crest of the sideboard also resemble some of the applied ornament under the coat hooks on the hall stand. Actually Jason, your sideboard looks really nice in the pic, why not consider just leaving it as is?
The base of our sideboard (the cabinet unit) is in worse off shape than it at first appears. The entire back side has been replaced with faux wood paneling (the kind that you see in the home improvement shows being torn off of walls in 1970s basements). The joiner work of the remaining old cabinet is pulling apart pretty bad (the bottom of the whole cabinet is a good inch or two wider than it should be due to pieces trying to pull themselves free of their mortise slots). The shelves inside the cabinet are relatively new 3/8" plywood, give or take. The upper mirror works have two or three tiny elements with pieces missing/broken. The top also appears to have scored an extra coat of varnish at some time or another. All in all, it was disappointing when I picked it up as it had been advertised as being in "mint condition" with nothing missing or broken.
I think that it will probably be another 10 years before I take any action on fixing the thing up. By then I might be confident enough to tackle the project on my own.
As for the leaves & such, I see that the M&R etagere leaves each have 3 main sections. Those on the sideboard generally have 5. Minor difference, but interesting to note.
But...thank you for the compliment on the sideboard (we still call it "the monster"...it was advertised as being a foot shorter and a foot narrower than its actual dimensions).
- Jason
I think that it will probably be another 10 years before I take any action on fixing the thing up. By then I might be confident enough to tackle the project on my own.
As for the leaves & such, I see that the M&R etagere leaves each have 3 main sections. Those on the sideboard generally have 5. Minor difference, but interesting to note.
But...thank you for the compliment on the sideboard (we still call it "the monster"...it was advertised as being a foot shorter and a foot narrower than its actual dimensions).
- Jason