Victorian Furniture

R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....

Started by DRAnderson · July 10, 2008 · 5 posts · 8 images

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Victorian Furniture thread on victorianforum.com · started July 10, 2008 by DRAnderson · 5 posts, 8 image attachments · discussion in 2008.

Hi, This bench came to live with us from an elderly relative last winter. I did a little research and found that it looks just like an R.J. Horner, but it has no identifying marks of any kind. I'm wondering if anyone could help me identify where it might have come from. Could…

Hi,
This bench came to live with us from an elderly relative last winter. I did a little research and found that it looks just like an R.J. Horner, but it has no identifying marks of any kind.  I'm wondering if anyone could help me identify where it might have come from. Could it possibly be a Horner without the brass tag? 
The pictures I've included attempt to show all the details - the griffins, mermaids, dragons, men in the front feet, the nude man reclining on a vase, plumed Roman Gladiator helmets, lions holding books, etc. If anyone has any idea what these all represent, I'd love to know. 
Thanks,
Diane
resized  Bench 004 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 004 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 001 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 001 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 005 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 005 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 006 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 006 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 003 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
resized Bench 003 — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
I have a suspicion (that would need more investigating) that it was made by Oriel Cabinet Co.

Check the doors on this and compare to your bench seat back.  I've isolated the door below.  Although not identical, it is stylistically very similar and carvings of similar quality.

I don't recall twin mermaids with outstretched arms to a circle surrounding a dog-headed figure being something that was a craze back then across multiple manufacturers.
panel — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
panel — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
Bench — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
Bench — R.J. Horner bench - maybe.....
Hi,
  Thanks for your help. I can see the similarities to the Oriel Cabinet piece. I ran across this bench at Ruby Lane in my quest to understand my bench (http://www.rubylane.com/shops/souhantq/item/151224). This looks almost identical to the carvings on my bench.  I'd be curious to know whether you think this would be a true Horner.

Thanks,
Diane
Without a label, one will never know unless another labeled piece can corroborate it.  Horner's name is thrown on anything that is extensively carved and has winged griffins.  You can ask Southampton what they base the attribution on, and I don't know what they'd say, but many dealers say "based on my x decades of experience", or "because of this other piece" (which can itself be mis-attributed), or because of the griffins or because of the cabochon/shield.  None of those answers is enough.

I have a Horner catalog from 1888 and it is of no help - he didn't document what he sold in detail, just high-level sales speak. 

As one can see with Oriel, they had comparable quality and similar style.  More from Oriel here

You have a piece with some of the best carving ever done at the time, whether it be Horner or otherwise.  I wouldn't rule Horner out, but I wouldn't rule out other makers like Oriel either.

Keep searching for labeled pieces from the makers to match up more carving details, but I think the labeled Oriel carvings I attached earlier in this thread is a good start.

If you're anxious for it to be Horner due to perceived better value, don't worry about that.  Oriel can garner just as much - see here and here.

Benches from either maker bring $2-$7k.
Forgot to mention that there is a labeled Horner bench on Ebay right now.  Listing is here.